房产变贵的主要原因．．．

大界王神

个人觉得不能按图索骥, 因为环境不同
对比新加坡家庭和马来西亚家庭, 买同样的东西, household expenses to household salary 的比例, 在小新是很低的.
在小新月入$3000的打工仔女每个月存$1000应该不难，可是如果在大马月入rm3000每个月存rm1000 应该要非常省吃俭用，没有驾车没有用smartphone上网没有上餐馆, 供屋子更是沉重的负担
所以小新家庭的闲钱是很多的, 同样是屋子, 即使小新的比较贵, 对他们的负担也不像大马这么重

Thx2012

rantao333 发表于 16-10-2012 03:25 PM
我认同你。。
其实应该讲的重点。
１。基本薪金普遍偏低。ＲＭ２５００－３０００

供车哪个450可以省掉，然后买一辆二手Wira 10千

然后吃饭省掉100，吃500就好。。。

这样你就有1500块，1500块拉40年供，买380千的屋子，一个月供1500刚刚好，不多也不少。。。

苹果小姐

u0508950 发表于 16-10-2012 03:45 PM
1。两个人打一间，不是一个人一间。
2。炒房不在人多，钱多就可以。房产从来就不是每个人可以负担的东西 ...

没错，现在真正买房买厂的都不是月薪二三千的人
买房的多是有钱人，这个只是他们防通膨的手段而已

u0508950

大界王神 发表于 16-10-2012 03:55 PM
个人觉得不能按图索骥, 因为环境不同
对比新加坡家庭和马来西亚家庭, 买同样的东西, household expenses t ...

小新通常是两个人才打得下一间公寓。如果有泡沫，一定是新加坡才到大马。你先去看看他们的房价，在比较大马的。我的中国客户跟新加坡客户在大马都有度假屋，有一个还在klcc买了一间2 百万的公寓要考量外来人的影响。新加坡是利息低，所以贷款便宜，造成房价猛涨。前些时候有人说泡沫泡沫，结果一年过去了，房价在政府猛打之下，硬硬升了上去。大马政府什么都没有做，还往房市加油，价钱就难下了。

willchh

也對啦，很多供屋的人都是月薪RM3000多的。

其實不用太吃驚，只要有那筆該死的頭期，人人都可以供的，父母家人肯出就沒問題了，RM200,000至RM300,000的，拿到30年來供。

vincentsieng

u0508950 发表于 16-10-2012 01:04 PM
Vincent哥，抄底很考量技术跟胆量的。：）

个人还是觉得胆量比较重要。

y2ksaw18

便便 发表于 16-10-2012 10:17 AM
新加坡HDB 的环境跟马来西亚的高档公寓还要干净

不要自我矮化，星加坡的HDB跟马来西亚的Flat没有两样，Ceiling矮+没有露台+晒衣服在屋子里面，造成家里很闷热。

白狐狸

max_cool29 发表于 16-10-2012 01:42 PM
你是会计师?

对，是会计师。

白狐狸

stone-creation 发表于 16-10-2012 01:58 PM
呵，呵，上到佳礼来就是来讨论的，没所谓的纠不纠结，如果你不想有人回你贴，你可以选择去投票贴投票，宣 ...

没冲突嘛。income per capita, household debt per capita衡量大马人还有多少能力可以负担房产。

负债，不管是你名下，还是不在你名下，都会影响你的usable income。还是不明白干嘛要搞到像学术研究。富爸爸把-ve cashflow的咚咚都称为负债。我看要写信给他解释解释才行。

u0508950

willchh 发表于 16-10-2012 04:15 PM
也對啦，很多供屋的人都是月薪RM3000多的。

其實不用太吃驚，只要有那筆該死的頭期，人人都可以供的，父 ...

要考虑两公婆齐力同心，如果给我两个RM4000， 百万店屋都可以想出办法打下来。看自己本身的定力跟理财能力。

u0508950

便便 发表于 16-10-2012 10:48 AM
jurong 那边的价钱也很贵了。。

dhoby ghaut 两房一厅的condo也叫价SGD 百万了。。（去年中问价）

多美歌那个很小好不好，像一个普通的厅，你把他切成三片，放两间房跟一个厅，我看双人床都不懂摆布摆得下。

u0508950

y2ksaw18 发表于 16-10-2012 04:58 PM
不要自我矮化，星加坡的HDB跟马来西亚的Flat没有两样，Ceiling矮+没有露台+晒衣服在屋子里面，造成家里很 ...

CEILING矮不太见得。晒衣服没有在家里面。没有露台倒是真的。

thomaslim

时常都说马来西亚的房产是区域最便宜。

但是

Why nobody mention this:

Malaysia house price especially those in Klang Valley is higher than US median price?

Many states in U.S i.e. Phoenix, Georgia and  Michigan (and many more!), the average home price is below US200k, or about RM600k.

Why nobody mention that even Singapore house price is more expensive, over 70% population live in the HDB program?

Why nobody ever mention HK although in different degree, has also similar program like HDB Singapore and yet over 70% of its population do not own car?

In Thailand too, the population is not over burden by extra loan i.e  car loan or related taxes.

Over leveraging is common among Malaysian. Taking 90% loan is a standard here while most countries mentioned above practice high down-payment for both new and sub-sale buying.

All of the countries mentioned have few folds higher per capita income than us who is still struggling to achieve higher income nation of the target USD15,000 annually by year 2020. I am fully aware those compared nations have already reached that mark at least a decade ago.

u0508950

thomaslim 发表于 16-10-2012 06:16 PM
时常都说马来西亚的房产是区域最便宜。

但是

Do not understand the rationale of you suddenly change the language from Chinese to English? Since you are using English, let me use English to reply you as well.

1. The basis of comparison between US housing market and ASIAN market is like orange to apple, you have to understand that being such a huge country, there is abundant of land there. And now I focus on KL, if you want, you can try compare New York with KL, and Pahang with whatever state that you mentioned. The basis of comparison must be correct, that is financial centre versus financial centre. New York housing price is sky high, even Hongkong also cannot beat it. And you have to bear this in mind, Ang Mo treat personal finance slightly different from Asian Chinese, a lot of them view shares and bonds as safe heaven to park their money, but Asian Chinese strongly believe parking money in real estate is a must. That explains why most of the Asian Chinese dominated big cities with sky high property price and yet the price doesn't seem to moderate.

2. like what I said, housing price growth is closely link to GDP growth(ie economy growth). If you compare GDP growth rate of Malaysia and US, which one is higher? Malaysia is still a developing country and there is certainly room of improvement for it in the future. My personal view is , current housing price is a fair reflection about how economy has performed in this 5 years and you have to take into account the effect of over-inflation and RM depreciation over this 5 years. All these factors can continue to support the housing market in the near future and prevents it from falling. A housing bubble is normally formed when nobody wants to buy real estate and the price of the properties beyond reach for many people(including those rich people). As long as the rich still willing to buy into Malaysian property market, and there is a demand for it, the price unlikely to fall.

3. HDB is a very good program by Singapore government initially. However,if you look at the prices for resale HDB flats, you will notice it rises even faster than any of the KL property that you can think of. So what you said in the previous part may not be applicable anymore. HDB is not really an affordable housing option anymore, a decent size HDB in Singapore can easily fetch about SGD 400k nowadays. Last month there was one EM sold at SGD 1 million. Housing bubble is not formed there, the demand is there and people still continue buying into Singapore properties. Similar situation happens in Malaysia now, you think the properties are over-priced, but I think if I manage to get a retirement home at KL Sentral with the price of HDB in Singapore, why not? Klang Valley land is so limited and I believe eventually Malaysia will become a better and more developed country. No one can tell the future. I can afford and I believe in the outlook, I will buy into Malaysia property market and I will share my view with my friends. We are Malaysians after all, with the sky high price in the Singapore property market, Malaysia property market is indeed very attractive to all of us. If many people work overseas think alike, how can the bubble be forming. It will only be formed if people think that real estate is not safe anymore or the place no longer suitable for housing purpose.

4. In the case of over leveraging, you din mention the fact that in Singapore or Hong Kong, the downpayment are also very low and their housing price is like 10 times ours? Furthermore, there are many people with strong holding power in Malaysia, it is not as weak as it appears to be. One of the main reasons is because a lot of people underdeclared in their income tax and the income per capita is based on what they declare. Although it is a criminal offence to underdeclare, I strongly believe a lot of people still doing so.

Housing price can only drop during a financial crisis but not when everyone worries about inflation pressure. Inflation is a fuel for housing price. With further depreciating outlook for RM and more inflation pressure setting in, where else you want to park your money? Banks fixed deposit? Unit trust? My personal view is: none of them can beat real estate market if you stretch to a longer time horizon like 10-20 years.

stone-creation

白狐狸 发表于 16-10-2012 05:34 PM
没冲突嘛。income per capita, household debt per capita衡量大马人还有多少能力可以负担房产。

负债 ...

富爸爸把-ve cashflow的咚咚都称为负债。我看要写信给他解释解释才行。

也好，顺便也问问他做么搞到要申请破产保护。

household debt per capita其实是一个很值得探讨的问題。但是，照搬外国，尤其是美国那套过来是不行的，因为马来西亚的household debt per capita与其他国家有一个很不同的特点。

西方国家的household debt per capita几乎都是源自于消费，而马来西亚的household debt per capita还包括了投资负债的因素。2011年household debt之中有45%是源自房屋贷款，而这些房屋贷款之中，有些是买来自住，有些则是买来投资供出租。如果要评估household debt per capita对楼市泡沫的impact，这些贷款应该转到商业贷款，因为这些贷款本身就是具有商业目标，而非单纯的房屋贷款，只有自住的房屋才属于消费型货款。

我想，你应该了解投资贷款与消费贷款对国家经济所带来的不同影响吧？

再者，一个banlance sheet不单是只有负债一边，所以，当我们在看household debt的同时，也有必要看一看household asset。一般上如果房贷在household debt之中佔有高比率，表示asset也会强劲。根据资料，household asset对household debt的比率是2.3倍，也就是说，每个家庭欠銀行一元的背后都拥有2.3元的资产作为抵押。其中1.48元是属于易变现的流动资产。

单是这一些就比美国楼市泡沫前的household debt per capita状况好得多了。

便便

u0508950 发表于 16-10-2012 06:02 PM
多美歌那个很小好不好，像一个普通的厅，你把他切成三片，放两间房跟一个厅，我看双人床都不懂摆布摆得下 ...

靠近市区嘛

便便

y2ksaw18 发表于 16-10-2012 04:58 PM
不要自我矮化，星加坡的HDB跟马来西亚的Flat没有两样，Ceiling矮+没有露台+晒衣服在屋子里面，造成家里很 ...

er。。我们这里的flat有高ceiling？ 很干净？

jiken

一句，你有holding power泡沫你也不会死。

Loksea

thomaslim 发表于 16-10-2012 09:22 AM
please 啦，讨论泡沫和买屋子是2回事。

会讲等泡沫扫便宜货的人可能有很多现金，现在已经有屋子了。

完全同意你的想法。 不知道他们为什么那么喜欢玩泡泡？可能他们还不知道泡泡喝了会进医院哦。

DongDong86

楼上很精彩…很有参考价值……
其实现在的市场都是以人为本，人感觉喜欢就要买，再贵也要买，隔一条街，新屋比旧屋贵一倍也要买。
上面提到我们都希望把钱放在Property做保值，这是Asian的市场，Asian就是这样想的，所以经济差我相信掉也不多，不会到泡沫的境界。
在这边几天总算有点收获，谢谢各位大大，不错不错~